Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

11

JW's put the cult in diffiCULT........

by oompa in

jw
friends

why do they have to make life so difficult for its members....do most other cults make life so difficultfor its members?

moonies seem happy!...i can think of other were life is not so difficult.....about the only things wt has done to make life less difficult for its zombies...is make the meetings shorter...get rid of home book studies and the extra night of dress up time misery....and lower pioneer hours three or four times.....i think they could really blossom if they would just let up and stop makin life so difficult........for its members................oompa.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Oompa, that's why I wish the WTS would make things harder on the friends. That way, some of them might do a cost/benefit analysis and realize that it's not worth it! We know that there are plenty of JWs out there that know that at least some of what the Society teaches is B.S.

Heck, I know one active JW who has told me on numerous occasions that he doesn't believe in God and that the Bible is a bunch of crap (his words, not mine). But folks like that stay in because it's easier than getting out.

But, if the WTS started making it harder to stay in...then you might see some of these "weaker" JWs start questioning whether it's worth it.

That's why I wish they would go back to hour-long public talks, 30 paragraph WT studies, week-long assemblies, etc. In fact, I think they should go back to the old-school Rutherford style of "witnessing" by picketing in front of churches on Sunday mornings with signs that religion is a snare and a racket. How many of today's "country-club" JWs would have the courage to go out and picket in front of their neighbors' churches?

If you want to see an example of what JWs used to be like, check out my old thread here (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/166078/1.ashx). I mean, who knew that Judge Rutherford fought for our right to call cops "god damned fascists"?

15

no more "uhhh...well....i uhh...don't celebrate christmas"!!!...big day...

by oompa in

jw
friends

big business day...lots of time spent with many important contacts...really trying to keep a big account.......so must have said merry christmas...and happy holidays 30 times!....damm that feels good...i always skirted the entire issue while in....but now....even though can not celebrate bigtime...have bought three gifts for some family and friends...and two for myself...hey it's a start anyway!..........oompa.

bonnzo...olin moyles....what is your wish list guys?.....and you too changeling and sweetstuff (where are these two lately?

)..........

Olin Moyles Ghost

Oompa: bonnzo...olin moyles....what is your wish list guys?

Well, I would really like one of those combined New World Translation + Reasoning Books. Or, as an alternative, how about one of those snazzy house-to-house record holders? ;)

What about you, oompa? What do you want under your tree?

15

me invited to wife's bookstudy farewell party at elders...GOING!

by oompa in

jw
friends

i just kind of like the irony.

these are all old friends of mine who i have told all about my issues with wt and my subsequent exit.

since they understand, i still get to "associate" with them occasionally.

Olin Moyles Ghost

So are you going to the book study, or just the after-party?

I've got to warn ya...the current book is not nearly as entertaining as the "Climax" book...

6

Former WT attorney Olin Moyle's papers at Princeton University

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

olin r. moyle was an attorney for the watchtower society from 1935 to 1939. he left bethel in 1939 due to becoming disillusioned with "judge" rutherford's conduct.

a copy of moyle's resignation letter can be found here: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/downloads/1939%20olin%20moyles%20letter%20to%20rutherford.pdf.

the letter enraged rutherford, and he immediately dismissed moyle and his wife from bethel.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Olin R. Moyle was an attorney for the Watchtower Society from 1935 to 1939. He left Bethel in 1939 due to becoming disillusioned with "Judge" Rutherford's conduct. A copy of Moyle's resignation letter can be found here: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/downloads/1939%20Olin%20Moyles%20letter%20to%20Rutherford.pdf

The letter enraged Rutherford, and he immediately dismissed Moyle and his wife from Bethel. Rutherford also lambasted Moyle in two Watchtower articles. Moyle retaliated by filing a libel suit against the Society and its board of directors as individuals. Moyle won the case...which to my knowledge is the only successful libel/slander suit against the Society.

Moyle donated his papers (including diaries and an unpublished manuscript) to Princeton University. This page (http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/getEad?id=ark:/88435/z029p477r) provides a brief description of the donated material.

Has anyone on this board visited Princeton to review these materials? I found a thread from 2005 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/85346/1.ashx) that mentions these papers. But the thread does not indicate whether anyone has viewed the papers. Does anyone have an update? Maybe we need to organize a JWD field trip to Princeton...

16

JWs: 144,000 in Revelation is not ALWAYS a literal number

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

i recently realized something interesting about jw theology and thought i'd share it with the rest of the class: as most of us know, a distictive facet of watchtower/jw theology is the concept that the 144,000 in revelation chapters 7 and 14 is a literal number.

thus, the witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 humans will be resurrected to heaven to rule with jesus christ, while the rest of the witnesses will populate a restored paradise earth.. they also teach that the 24 elders in revelation represent the 144,000 kings and priests in heaven.

so, when rev.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I recently realized something interesting about JW theology and thought I'd share it with the rest of the class: As most of us know, a distictive facet of Watchtower/JW theology is the concept that the 144,000 in Revelation chapters 7 and 14 is a literal number. Thus, the Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 humans will be resurrected to heaven to rule with Jesus Christ, while the rest of the Witnesses will populate a restored paradise earth. They also teach that the 24 elders in Revelation represent the 144,000 kings and priests in heaven. So, when Rev. 14:3 depicts the 144,000 singing a song in front of the 24 elders, this seems a bit strange. How can they sing in front of themselves? It doesn't make a lot of sense. So, I looked it up in the "Revelation Climax" book. Page 201, paragraph 10 states the following:

"How can the 144,000 sing “before” the elders, since the 24 elders are the 144,000 in their glorious heavenly position? Early in the Lord’s day, those “dead in union with Christ” were resurrected as spirit creatures. Thus, faithful anointed Christians who have conquered are now in heaven, symbolically fulfilling functions comparable to those of 24 divisions of priestly elders. They are included in the vision of Jehovah’s heavenly organization. (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16; 1 Chronicles 24:1-18; Revelation 4:4; 6:11) The remnant of the 144,000 still on earth are therefore singing the new song before, or in the sight of, their resurrected brothers in heaven."

Notice the last sentence. Yes, there are not literally 144,000 singing the new song in Rev. 14:3. Rather, it's the REMNANT of the 144,000 on earth during the Lord's day. So, today that's between 9,000 and 10,000 "singers." Therefore, the 144,000 in Rev. 14:3 is not a literal number. It's figurative.

35

What convinced you?

by heybaby in

as far as doctrine goes, what finally convinced you that this isn't the truth?

Olin Moyles Ghost

Oompa: "but the snake trick was to impress Pharaoh wasn't it?...not the Israelites?"

Actually, the snake trick was to impress both Pharoah and the Hebrews.

In Exodus 3:16-17, God tells Moses to tell the older men of Israel that God is going to deliver them from Egypt to a land flowing with milk and honey.

Then in Exodus 4:1 Moses is worried that they won't believe that God really appeared to him. So in verses 2-5, God gives Moses the power to turn a stick into a snake. Verse 5 shows that this was to convince the Israelites (“In order that,” to quote him, “they may believe that Jehovah the God of their forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”)

Hey, thanks for lunch by the way. I'll pick up the check next time...

35

What convinced you?

by heybaby in

as far as doctrine goes, what finally convinced you that this isn't the truth?

Olin Moyles Ghost

Reading the parable of the faithful and discreet slave in Matthew 24 and Luke 12, then researching the so-called appointment of the FDS in 1919 in the Society's publications did it for me.

I decided to put the burden of proof back on the Society. In other words, the Society should provide some proof that God selected it in 1919. In Bible times, when God worked through a man or organization, He always provided tangible proof. For example, when he used Moses, God gave him the power to turn sticks into snakes so that the Israelites would believe that he was really from God. Also, when Korah, Dathan, and Abiram rebelled, God made Aaron's staff sprout flowers to show that he was to be the high priest.

So, where is the proof that God selected the Watchtower Society? It simply doesn't exist. Then, when you factor in the false prophecies and flip-flops on doctrine it all begins to make sense. The Governing Body is just a group of men with no special channel of communication to God.

The Society is correct about some doctrinal matters, in my humble opinion. My primary "beef" with the Society is that they constantly "go beyond what is written" and have become a modern-day Pharisee class. This is not unusual. Throughout history, religious organizations have done the same thing. It's just another example of how the JWs are not as special or different as they think.

10

How much of your morality was/is tied to God looking over your shoulder?

by Open mind in

Olin Moyles Ghost

None. I live the way I do because it works out best for me and the ones I love.

My JW friends used to talk about what they would do if they were in "the world." Their ideas were interesting...usually included lots of sex, drugs, and (oh my goodness) facial hair. My response was that the only thing that would change for me is that I would have Tuesday night, Thursday night, and Saturday and Sunday mornings free.

25

We had it all figured out..honest. 1974 KM..please read lurkers...

by oompa in

well, why can't i cut and paste material?...am i restricted or something?

have tried and tried.

maybe i will be able to if i can just start the damm thread......oompa

Olin Moyles Ghost

oompa, are you referring to this passage from page 3 of the May 1974 Kingdom Ministry: "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end."

Hey, it was only 34 years ago...I bet those folks are glad they sold their homes and property...

11

Can you be disfellowshiped for getting Tattoo's?

by Witness 007 in

anyone know of any incidents?

the watchtower always uses the old testament verses to support this, so elders don't really have a leg to stand on.

i wonder if i got a little watchtower symbol if that would be okay.

Olin Moyles Ghost

No. But it's discouraged and you'll likely lose some "privileges" if the elders find out.